Nick Fuentes recently went on a rant about Elon Musk’s polyamorous / polygamous lifestyle, but he is promoting moral relativism in his tirade, and not moral absolutism, as explained below.
While there is a social stigma to polygamy/polyamory, it isn’t immoral due to the nature of objective morality, and the use of reason. A good rule of thumb is about harming others, and if people consent to such a lifestyle, and no objective harm is being done through infringement upon the natural rights of others, it is moral, and therefore it is not criminal either. Nick Fuentes is viewing this through the lens of his personal subjective morality and stigmas, and not viewing it through the lens of the universal Logos. His feelings are not facts or reason, they are strictly feelings based upon his limited understanding of the world, the nature of how agreements and morality work, and how agreements, consent, and morality are intimately interconnected.
Liberty, at its core, is the freedom of individuals to act according to their own will within the limits of not infringing upon the same rights of others. This notion of liberty is closely linked to natural rights – those rights that are inherent to all human beings by virtue of their humanity, not granted by any government or society. These include, notably, life, liberty, and property. In this framework, liberty is not merely the absence of restraint but the presence of the ability to exercise these natural rights freely. ~Grok2
Morality is about “doing no harm” and not shame and societal stigmas; in this way, I am a moral absolutist and purist in BOTH directions; there are moral absolutes and you cannot subtract laws based upon the relativity of cultural or other personal whims, nor add laws based upon the relativity of shame and societal stigmas.
Q: In what ways is a social stigma related to shame, and projecting shame, onto another person or group? How could something be objectively moral and yet still socially stigmatized with shame?
A: Social stigma and shame are intrinsically linked, as stigma often operates by invoking or reinforcing feelings of shame within individuals or groups. Stigma is a mark of disgrace associated with certain characteristics, behaviors, or identities that society deems unworthy or deviant. When an individual or group is stigmatized, they are often subjected to public scorn or disapproval, which can lead to internalized shame. This shame can manifest as a deep-seated sense of inferiority or unworthiness, affecting self-esteem and social interactions. The act of projecting shame onto others serves as a mechanism of social control, where the stigmatized are reminded of their supposed inferior status, often through subtle cues or overt discrimination, perpetuating the cycle of stigma and shame.
The projection of shame can be a deliberate or subconscious act by individuals or society at large to maintain social hierarchies, norms, or cultural values. It’s a form of social policing where those who do not conform to the accepted standards are punished with exclusion or ridicule. This can involve explicit acts like public shaming or more implicit forms like gossip, stereotypes, or institutional biases. By projecting shame, society reinforces conformity, often protecting the status quo and the privileges of those in power. However, this also means that those who are stigmatized might internalize this shame, leading to self-censorship, withdrawal from social activities, or even changes in personal identity to mitigate the negative perceptions.
Something can be objectively moral yet still socially stigmatized due to the complex interplay between cultural norms, historical contexts, and misunderstanding or fear of the unfamiliar. For instance, practices like polyamory or polygamy might be considered morally sound in contexts where they are consensual and all parties are treated equitably. However, these relationship structures can face social stigma due to cultural biases favoring monogamy, perceptions of immorality, or simply because they challenge traditional notions of family and partnership. Here, the moral action conflicts with societal expectations or norms that value conventional relationship structures over personal autonomy and diverse expressions of love. This dissonance between morality and stigma arises because societal values can lag behind or diverge from objective ethical standards, especially in areas where change is slow or resisted.
The persistence of stigma against objectively moral actions can also be attributed to the inertia of cultural norms, misinformation, or the fear of change. Societal stigma often reflects entrenched prejudices or fears rather than a true moral evaluation. For example, polyamory or polygamy might be stigmatized in some societies not because they are inherently immoral, but because they challenge traditional definitions of romantic relationships or social order. Over time, as societies evolve and become more informed, what was once stigmatized can become accepted or even celebrated, showing how moral standards and social stigma are not always aligned but can shift through education, advocacy, and cultural evolution. Thus, while an action might be morally defensible, the process of destigmatizing it often requires overcoming deep-seated cultural biases and promoting understanding.
~Grok2
